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    Factorio Alt-F4 #43 - The DyWorld Saga

    July 23, 2021

    Factorio Alt-F4 #43 - The DyWorld Saga

    Alt-F4 #43 - The DyWorld Saga

    Posted: 23 Jul 2021 04:58 AM PDT

    Forget the grid : here's the ribbon compact superfactory

    Posted: 23 Jul 2021 04:09 AM PDT

    i cancelled some hand crafting with a full inventory

    Posted: 22 Jul 2021 12:33 PM PDT

    Does anyone else feel guilty about killing biters?

    Posted: 23 Jul 2021 12:59 AM PDT

    If you do, how do you deal with guilt/justify killing biters? I know I have to defend myself, but I'm an alien crashed on their planet, producing pollution and they're just trying to defend themselves as well.

    Idk this might sound stupid to you, but I'm the type of player that never kills animals in minecraft etc.

    Edit: I acknowledge that it's a game, I don't actually sit and think that doing anything in a game has any influence on my life. It's just a matter of immersion. If I consider every aspect of a game as just a game mechanic, then what's the point of textures and thematic? Just render gray pixels and boilerplate sounds. Why else does the water turn green and flora change as the pollution increases, if not for the sake of immersion?

    submitted by /u/hurtmeviciously
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    Trying to get the No Spoon achievement, don't think i can make it

    Posted: 23 Jul 2021 01:05 AM PDT

    Thanks everyone.

    Posted: 22 Jul 2021 02:17 PM PDT

    I don't read all the comments of every post but whenever I see people ask for suggestions, people are friendly and have helpful suggestions and are not belittling. Thanks everyone for making this subreddit welcoming for the new players and the seasoned engineers.

    submitted by /u/AtomizedRobot
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    Hexagons are the Bestagons: A Base Tour (2.7kSPM)

    Posted: 22 Jul 2021 01:39 PM PDT

    Hexagons are the Bestagons: A Base Tour. (2.7kSPM)

    So here is my base. Her are my rules:

    1. Vanilla.
    2. Produce 2.7kSPM; 1 full blue belt of each type of science.
    3. Lots of trains! I use 1-4 trains for everything. I also use water trains; almost all water goes on a train, including for my nuclear powerplants. More on that later.
    4. Be (relatively) kind to the nature. No mowing down entire forests, no vast stretches of concrete, no filling in entire lakes.
    5. I went with no biters and no pollution because this was mostly a proof of concept, and I wasn't that interested in fighting biters all the time. I'll probably do a death world next, but I suck at killing biters so there will probably be a lot of reloading.

    So first thing's first: The Building Block of my base, the mighty yet humble hexagon. I spent quite a bit of time ensuring this blueprint was just right. If it is possible to build symmetry into one of its six elegant edges, I ensured that the symmetry was in the blueprint. The top and bottom edges are horizontally symmetric; with the exception of the radar+light+power pole, they are also vertically symmetric. (because lights, power poles, and radar are an odd number of squares, it is impossible for them to be reflectionally symmetric in a blueprint which includes rails) The angled sides are 90-degree rotationally and vertically/horizontally symmetric, again excluding radars and lights, but this time including the medium power poles which power the roboport in the side.

    The hexagons tile perfectly. The shape itself is 192 square tiles wide and 128 square tiles tall. I align the blueprint to an absolute 64x64 square, so you can easily move the blueprint three 64 tile squares horizontally and one 64 tile square vertically and it will tile with the previous hex.

    The large power poles are wired with circuit wires across the whole map, but I don't use them for anything. The blueprint can be built with robots from the map- the power poles which power any given roboport is within the build range of the roboports that would blind map build it. The gap in the horizontal edges is a 6 tile gap, which leaves room for precisely two mining drills, so ore patches that cross a hex tile can still be mined completely.

    The intersection at each hexagon vertex has a very high throughput:simplicity ratio. That's really the key to this whole thing; it wouldn't actually work if the vertices weren't so small and so high throughput. Notice that it's three rail blocks-- three trains can all turn right at the same time, or one train can turn right while another turns left at the same time if they're going parallel in opposite directions. The trouble with trying to do this same concept -- tiling the entire map with a rail grid -- on a square grid is that the intersections get all sorts of congested, because four way intersections inherently cause a lot of congestion unless you make them overly complicated with runoff ramps etc which uses a lot of space. Plus a 3 way intersection can be much smaller than a 4 way intersection and still be functional, with all the necessary chain signals.

    Here is one of my copper smelters. This is generally how many of the hexes will look; there will be a loading/unloading station in each hex "ear" and a bunch of factories in the center.

    Because the base is a rail mesh which tiles the entire map, there are combinatorially many ways to get from Point A to Point B. So even if a train which is moving horizontally is blocked at an intersection by a train moving vertically, it can often find a different route to get to where it's going using the other direction at the intersection. So even though there are a metric fuckton of trains running about the map, there is very little congestion. Congestion is not a bottleneck here.

    I mentioned using water trains for my nuclear power plants. My base includes 5 nuclear power plants, with 10 reactors and 144 heat exchangers each, so 720 total heat exchangers. Each heat exchanger uses 104 water per second, so when the nuclear power plants are running, I use 74,880 water per second for nuclear power alone. This is one water train every 1.3 seconds, in addition to the water trains necessary for oil, sulfuric acid, etc. [Here are two of my water stations.](I am currently trying to figure out how to upload a video) There are two more water stations elsewhere on the map. Water trains are ... not good, they're objectively bad, but I think they're neat. That being said, I am currently phasing out nuclear power. I achieved the train busy-ness that I was hoping for with this base, I probably won't ever build water train driven nuclear power plants again.

    Here is where all the magic happens. This is a 12 by 10 grid of science labs with the corners docked for 116 labs. (~115.5 labs will eat 2.7kSPM) Science is belted in across the rails. This is the only place in the base where stuff is belted across hexes. I did that because I thought it was going to be neat, but next time I probably won't. To the north is red+green science, to the northeast is purple science, to the southeast is yellow science, to the south is space science, to the northwest is blue science. There is a tile reserved for military science, but since I don't have biters I didn't build it.

    This is my purple science hex. It is 8 independent columns of 7 science factories each, plus everything necessary to build rails, iron rods, productivity modules, and furnaces. Each column takes steel, green circuits, red circuits and stone brick from the north, iron from the west, and stone from the south, and spits out roughly 1/8th of a belt of purple science to the south. Here's the unloading station. There's a bit of spaghetti to get everything where it needs to be on the proper belts and properly lane balanced, but it works. You'll notice that the odd numbered train cars are unloaded on the left and the evens are unloaded on the right; that's the only way I could figure out how to keep the gap between unloading stations to just 6 tiles. If anyone's got a better idea, let me know. That being said, it's not that terrible; for the stone brick+red circuits it's actually fine because those belts need to be interleaved anyway.

    Here's yellow science. In contrast to purple science, which had 8 independent columns that produced all intermediate products by themselves, this has one row of engines, one row of electric motors, three rows of flying robot frames, and four rows of science. Belting is greatly simplified, but I still use the compact alternating left/right unloaders.

    Blue circuit build 1.0. It's not great. Blue circuits really needs two inserters for green circuits, but with this build I built myself into a corner, and there's not really an easy way to add another inserter. Blue circuit build 2.0. This one is much much better. In addition to being prettier and having 15% more ideal throughput it actually achieves its ideal throughput. It's probably easier on the UPS as well.

    Red circuits. I don't know what the actual bottleneck here is. The bottleneck should be the 4 plastic belts (perfect throughput is like 4.08 belts) but they're backing up. So the bottleneck is somwhere else and I can't figure it out. That being said, 2.7kSPM requires (ideally) 264 red circuit factories, and three of these plants has 300 factories, so I would be way overproducing red circuits if each of my three plants was operating perfectly. So ... I don't actually need to fix whatever this problem is.

    Plastic! Take note of the ... interesting way plastic is loaded onto the trains. A 2.7kSPM base requires 16.3 belts of plastic, and this build produces like 15.9 belts, and puts about 15.8 belts onto the trains. I'm not sure that it's possible to get two full compressed belts onto one side of one train car, but this is the best I've been able to come up with. It is a 2x4 belt splitter, followed by a 4x4 lane balancer, followed by a 4x6 belt splitter, and the inserters pull directly out of the final splitter. I have another plastic build elsewhere, based on coal liquifaction, which opportunistically munches wood to generate steam. Between the 2 belts of plastic that build produces and the 15.<something> this build produces, I have all the plastic I need. It's probably better to build a second loading station. Trying to cram 16 fully compressed belts onto a 1-4 train is probably not ideal.

    I'm not sure what I'm going to do next. There are a handful of more things to polish off with this base, (nuclear power delete, some things are overproduced that I can get rid of) but after that I'm not sure. Probably either a death world or a gigabase.

    I don't know if hex tiling will scale up to larger trains. There's a square cube law problem; the size of the trains increases linearly, but the buildable space increases quadratically. But if you double the size of your trains you're not squaring the number of factories you can support.

    submitted by /u/pigeon768
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    Dense Neural Network + Backpropagation implementation in Factorio

    Posted: 22 Jul 2021 03:48 AM PDT

    Dense Neural Network + Backpropagation implementation in Factorio

    ​

    https://preview.redd.it/k955xk3ouqc71.png?width=1099&format=png&auto=webp&s=de8325fa15f7bed225363791168fa994a9e28365

    So I decided to finally try using circuit networks the other day to stop overproducing bots. In the process of doing that, I realised that multiple signals going into the same wire will be summed together.

    "Hmm," I thought. "This means matrix multiplication would probably be pretty easy to implement."

    "..."

    "Oh. Oh no."

    Anyway, I ended up implementing a dense neural network using this idea and the memory cell design from https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?t=60330. The inputs (X) goes in from the left to the right via the red wires, get multiplied with the weights (M for memory), and then are summed via the green wires going down. A ReLU activation is applied, and this repeats until it reaches the output layer (O).

    The output then calculates an error and gradients (E) according to a squared difference objective function and backpropagates them in reverse order. A timer applies the gradients repeatedly with the learning rate (L). One caveat is that since Factorio doesn't support floats, I ended up creating a constant (C) which effectively acts as a factor on all the stored values. i.e. 20100 stored in a cell with C=1000 means the cell represents 20.1 (fixed-point arithmetic). This means it'll be really easy to overflow/underflow.

    This net is 2x4x4x1, in other words, one input with a bias term, two hidden layers with 4 neurons each, one output. The objective simply makes it learn a constant (Y). I might be able to learn something more complicated, but it's not very stable and so gradients might just asplode if you're not careful.

    Happy to share the blueprint, but the first time I posted this the link caused this post to be marked as spam :(

    EDIT: Moved pic to top

    submitted by /u/moartanks
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    it is both a blessing and disturbing that one can place power pole(s) in the arc of long-handled inserters and both still work

    Posted: 22 Jul 2021 07:59 PM PDT

    Have I made a mistake? K2 & RSO & Rail World Modifier

    Posted: 23 Jul 2021 06:05 AM PDT

    How to find out current biter settings?

    Posted: 23 Jul 2021 01:47 AM PDT

    Hello fellow engineers I'm looking for console commands to find out biter related configurations values ..

    I know /evolution tells the current evolution factor (0-1) But I'd like to see other factors like expansion growth etc... Basically I want to check why am I not getting attacked enough and if I could do something to do that..

    submitted by /u/abhishekr700
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    New player here, 30h in. I saw a lot of posts telling me not to look up ready setups because it ruins the fun so i did not. I only had some general knowledge and started out going for the bus but it quickly got spaghettified lmao. I will gladly take some advice from yall veterans out there )

    Posted: 22 Jul 2021 01:04 PM PDT

    is there a build/layout planner akin to stardew planner?

    Posted: 23 Jul 2021 01:42 AM PDT

    Something like this https://stardew.info/planner/# which lets you place and arrange things outside of the game so i can do some building and learn how to place things in ways that makes sense while I'm not at home on my PC.

    I'm still very new and I'm still in the process of wrapping my head around simple production chains and laying things out orderly, my stuff is still very messy, cramped and there's still some manual carrying of stuff like wall to the black science area.

    I only just crudely built my first chemistry things and set up blue science, which is slightly overwhelming me now (i build like a giant research area so I've had all non-blue things researched long before I even took my first oil) so

    I dont really want to just go get every blueprint and rebuild those like tons of tutorials I skimmed by seem to do, I didn't unlock copy and pasting or any of that stuff, which I'm sure would make things easier, but I at least want to get somewhere myself first

    submitted by /u/Sterling-4rcher
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    Hours played

    Posted: 22 Jul 2021 10:46 PM PDT

    I've played the game for about 600hrs and I've seen people with 3000+ hrs, so I'm just wondering how many hours others have spent in the game

    submitted by /u/patches_7483
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    Sometimes I really wish I could lose all my knowledge about Factorio

    Posted: 22 Jul 2021 06:14 PM PDT

    And start again simple plain the game .....

    submitted by /u/ActualReverk
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    What mod playthrough to do?

    Posted: 23 Jul 2021 06:42 AM PDT

    Should I do SE or SE+K2 Or py

    submitted by /u/ChadFricker
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    I fucked up.

    Posted: 22 Jul 2021 04:09 PM PDT

    So started a playthru last week after not having played for... maybe 2 years or so. I wanted a map where I started on a large island for easy defense planning to eventually branch out to other islands for further resources after getting my bootstrap done. Well turns out it's called island and not islands for a reason, it's a singular island. I wasn't aware of this when creating my game and now regret. My question is, is there a way I can just copy and paste all my work from my current map, to a new map? A blueprint wouldn't be enough as I would lose my tech and current resources. Or if there is a way I could add more islands/resources to my current game, that would also solve my mistake.

    Any help is very appreciated, thank you!

    submitted by /u/too_late_to_abort
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    m(ORE) pixel art! (with code)

    Posted: 22 Jul 2021 11:06 AM PDT

    m(ORE) pixel art! (with code)

    Earlier this week I posted this small pixel art made with console commands ingame. Originally I had to make it by assigning each individual pixel by hand on the LUA code to be run ingame, and as you can probably imagine, doing that for a 17x14 image is already a ton of work. Even if we consider that around 30% of the pixels were blank, it's still around 160 pixels to manually assign ores to.

    Two other "problems" with that approach were that we don't have access to a lot of colors while using only the vanilla ores, and that I had to eyeball it to assign each color ("ok, so the red on his hat is going to be copper ore"... and so on).

    Of course, being the cultured people you all are, you can already imagine where I'm going with this. This game is about automation, so let's automate it!

    A quick disclaimer, I'm not a developer/programmer of any kind. In fact I only deal with coding when I want to have some fun with projects such as this one, so don't expect some highly optimized, bug-free, pretty code, and be kind while judging it!

    My idea was to creat a script in python on wich I would parse an image, and it would analyze each pixel of that image, compare it with the color of each ore we have in the vanilla+bobs+angels (had to disable angel's overriding other ores for that), find the one that's closest to that pixel color, and output a block of LUA code that I could just copy and paste ingame.

    Here's how it looks like (I'm not the one that created the original images. Found them in google):

    https://preview.redd.it/zz17inbe0tc71.png?width=1121&format=png&auto=webp&s=bfc783843044a66767e29a540b6b784ca2bfa347

    You can check those zoomed in on this link.

    ​

    I made it all using google colab, with the intent of sharing it here so you guys can try it out by yourselves! You can access the full code by clicking here!

    How to:

    1. Open the google colab link and create a copy of it on your own Google Drive.
    2. Chose a picture to convert. It will work the best if the image is:
      1. Around 256x256 or smaller (tested up to 350x350, and it takes some time).
      2. A png with transparent background.
      3. The colors are easy to map to the ores on the modpacks I mentioned.
    3. Upload the image on the "files" section of google colab.
    4. On line 28, change the 'factorio.png' for the name of the image you just uploaded.
    5. Run the code.
    6. Copy the output (it also outputs into a .txt file you can download) and paste it in game!
      1. For it to work with all the ores, you need bob's ores and angel's refining installed.
      2. Also, find angel's refining prototype generation override file, usualy in "C:\Users\YourUserName\AppData\Roaming\Factorio\mods\angelsrefining_0.11.21\prototypes\generation\angels-override.lua", and add a line at the beginning of the file with if false then, and another one at the end wih end. This is done so that angel's refining don't disable bob's and vanilla ores from generating.

    Also, share your creations here! I'd love to see them all.

    submitted by /u/Shruikan864
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    I heard y’all like spaghetti, so here’s my first attempt at a black science pack factory

    Posted: 22 Jul 2021 04:35 PM PDT

    Mod list missing in save file?

    Posted: 23 Jul 2021 04:04 AM PDT

    Mod list missing in save file?

    Does anyone know what to do when the mod list only lists the base mod (e.g. "base 1.1.36) although it's a save file which was played with a bunch of other mods?

    This is how the save looks like on my server (also when loaded in headless, only tne base-mod is loaded):

    https://preview.redd.it/uka7kj9c2yc71.png?width=224&format=png&auto=webp&s=4009c8ccb619b2c7c51f22247024a2211d89ede6

    ​

    ...and these are the mods which were originally present in MultiPlayer game before (now we want to move to a headless server):

    ​

    https://preview.redd.it/qyke6nki2yc71.jpg?width=745&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6a8ef97acaea6c0c5cba6ba0bc4676b972feafd

    submitted by /u/tamasgal
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    Any way to remove the grass from my concrete?

    Posted: 22 Jul 2021 06:33 PM PDT

    First mod to play?

    Posted: 23 Jul 2021 02:52 AM PDT

    I've played factorio for a while now, and i'm coming to the end of a vanilla playthrough, and I was thinking, I really want to play with mods. I've heard about Krastorio 2 and Space Exploration, and both of those look great. my question is, which one should I play first? and should I play them together? I only have experience with vanilla factorio.

    (also, if playing with one of these mods, are there any smaller QOL mods that I should use with them?)

    submitted by /u/Tommystorm9
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